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Post by Majimaune on Oct 5, 2006 20:49:46 GMT -5
The reason he doesnt speek is he has no mouth. By the Way I have read Sil 3 times. Yes they did think he was great but he was also in a different form then. That was after the defeat of Morgoth and before he came back as Sauron. He only decived the elves I think though, he didnt actually go to Valinor and talk to the Valar. The elves (although elves they are) where decived by his fair form and his SKILLFUL speach.
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Post by fanficfan on Oct 5, 2006 21:00:25 GMT -5
Exactly, after the fall of Numenor his true self was revealed (or was that Morgoth? I haven't read Sil for a while...) Regardless, like erinion said by LotR he didn't speak, he sent his emissaries out to say "join us or Sauron will crush you..." Not skilled oration at all. On the other hand, Saruman had the entire White Council convinced that he was on their side. He had ensared King Theoden, and would have effectively neutralised Rohan in the coming war if Gandalf hadn't freed him. While all the time he was secretly supporting Sauron and building an army of Uber Orcs tm
Then Gandalf the White came along and surpassed Saruman him in every aspect of his own powers.
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Post by Majimaune on Oct 5, 2006 21:06:52 GMT -5
Yeah it was Sauron.
Saruman was thrown open by Gandalf the Grey you must remember that.
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Post by Majimaune on Oct 19, 2006 4:56:39 GMT -5
So whats the verdict with Gandalf's power? More powerful then Saruman or less (I mean when he is White).
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Post by erinion on Oct 22, 2006 3:22:19 GMT -5
Gandalf the White more powerful, but has his previous powers only with Saruman's power/strength added on top, I believe. Gandalf the Grey was a match for Saruman, but might have been defeated by him, might have won.
The White has all of Gandalf's old firey powers, and also the strength of Saruman's powers added on, if that makes sense...
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Post by Majimaune on Oct 23, 2006 1:49:14 GMT -5
Yeah it makes sense to me at least.
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Post by Angoreth on Dec 9, 2006 23:02:23 GMT -5
I agree, he poured some of himself into. Their's a "spiritual binding" if you will. Just like your tired and you want/need your bed and you can feel that your getting more and more tired but your unable to sleep and regain your energy, I would speculate it's the same.
Hm I dunno prolly a bad analogy
I prefer Elrond, he wrote in moon runes ^_^
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Post by Majimaune on Dec 10, 2006 0:50:01 GMT -5
Where did Elrond come into this??
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Post by fanficfan on Dec 10, 2006 6:06:57 GMT -5
erinion - I sort of agree with you. I don't think Gandalf the White = Gandalf the Grey+Saruman. To simplify what I think - (Gandalf the Grey + Saruman) X 5 Remember in TTT (book) when Saruman turns his back to Gandalf and starts to walk away, then Gandalf Commands him to stay? I'd say Gandalf had pretty well passed Saruman and left him coughing on the dust. Comparing their power before Gandalf became "the White" is difficult because their powers are quite different. That said, I still think that Saruman was more powerful that "the Grey" Just the fact that he could keep Gandalf imprisoned implies he was more powerful, plus he beat Gandalf in their duel. Which is a bit of an inconsistency for me, I'd have thought Gandalf's "fire" based power would be able to beat Sarumans oration based power in a straight up fight. Perhaps Sauron taught him some tricks.
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Post by Majimaune on Dec 11, 2006 1:16:22 GMT -5
Whatsisname in the Grey Havens always knew Gandalf was the most powerful of all the Istari but no one else knew that. Everyone else thought Saroman was the most powerful all clad in white.
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Post by fanficfan on Dec 12, 2006 7:33:12 GMT -5
His name is Cirdan, of the Grey Havens. He didn't recognise Gandalf (Olorin) as being more powerful, just says that he recognised great wisdom. Cirdan saw that Gandalf had a great burden ahead of him, and that he would need the power of the Ring of Fire.
Not everyone thought Saruman was the most powerful of the Istari, Galadriel wanted Gandalf to be the head of the White Council. But he said, "no thanks." So Saruman got the job and screwballed it.
Also, on the note of Gandalf's power as "the White... Taken from the Two Towers. That very strongly suggests that Saruman had been utterly surpassed.
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Post by Majimaune on Dec 13, 2006 2:25:03 GMT -5
With the White Council thing. Um Galadrial wanted Gandalf but no one else did (or very few people) everyone else wanted Saruman.
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Post by fanficfan on Dec 14, 2006 23:24:32 GMT -5
Wiki says: So I reckon that Gandalf could have been head of the white council if he wanted to be.
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Post by Majimaune on Dec 15, 2006 3:32:40 GMT -5
Yes if he wanted to be.
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